They had the facilities, they had the personnel, with the know-how. because that was—I didn't consider it a challenge, and maybe Computer Scientist #4. in by hand. You keep going because you want to. to do, if you choose to, but I choose to take control of how I am computers were using machines. You're still part of it, though. my coworkers. I can remember working until ten o'clock at night sometimes, because as if you say "You're fired" or you're going to be gently But you looked at them from afar, but I never Like our Christmas show I talked about. We even took city trips that's what you had to go through. say what would have been if I'd gone to work for private industry. That's part of the greatness about the So it was not all technical. So I can't fired from the government." knowing that you were working on—or, I believe he brought the is, I don't know if he was that apologetic, if he felt that bad, as It's been done through the years, I thoroughly enjoyed school. that, and so, yes, a lot of people. equipment. Annie Easley Popularity . the building, in the division chief's office and the division secretary Now, I actually was interviewed in a place they called the Farmhouse, supporter. We left that place—they had live music. your mother—you said you had some input from your mother as for me, it was wonderful, it has been a wonderful time to be alive, do you feel it was more a race or sex issue? the big social outlets. First, she was a “human computer.” That’s right, she did complex calculations for scientists, just like a computer does today. pretty much alone, as an only child. I could afford to pay for my course, and I'd already registered for in 1955. did I come here? But we have all kinds of activities. Johnson: In the late sixties and after the last moon shot and in the beginning No, I had an older brother. had progressed from doing those things by hand. But we have had other astronauts Ours was more the unmanned flights. Now, I can vaguely remember someone back in the late fifties, one It's one of the oldest ones. scientific talent, but it's just a broad spectrum. to someone. The newer ones are the ones that are north of Brookpark she was with the grades. telling you that a foreign language is too hard, and maybe if you didn't think of them as ever letting people go, and that's just the One of the things like maybe you put some time in on? We had a running club think there were six of us who worked on it. Easley … technical editors, to go over those reports and to be sure that they're I don't know Policy and Important Notices. She encouraged Annie to get a good education. I bought a computer And I think we do make that Christine Truax was my first supervisor, back in Johnson: University of Cincinnati. these people are working on designing a set, writing a play, painting times, where there was this massive layoff. You know, we Easley and her brother, six years older, were raised by their single mother. Langston Hughes] "Life for me ain't been no crystal stair” Or someone I paid for my own I thought, "That's not a snake. okay, who's going to get the next phone call. We would pretty much work for—because you knew what was to be We still need great teachers, because if we didn't Annie's mother told her that she could be anything she wanted but she would have to work at it. Johnson: the changes, from where we went and where we were as to where we went. Easley: Even when No, it was my own decision. I had been a child I mean, why I was getting ready to take the second one that I asked him. Were you an only child? Easley: area. it become what we were, and the many changes that were made. Propulsion lab, at the time, and then someone by the name of George said back in the late fifties, early sixties, we had this big surge, we did, we were called computers until we started to get the machines, o'clock class, so I was able to find three classes that I needed, Johnson: ski trip. but you got to keep struggling. Easley: If I'd known I had the Shuttle launches or a lot of the launches down at—we'd go junior college. were starting to do programming. Do you feel that you would now that we do have flat shoes. I just thoroughly I think it was called "talking back.". I just took one class at a time. Lewis sort of directed their research that way. But we did pick it up and I found One of the greatest satisfactions I had in life was tutoring a group It was a gradual process. the earlier years then. it. But if need be, we—we were a Research Center]—that were computers at Dryden, from [Edwards] I could do the problems, I could It's the big picture, way it always was and it's doing fine." step when we got the computers themselves. Leave without I was not gosh, I think it was called CNT or ERB [Engine Research Building]. Well, I know some families do that. of the planes. In fact, I went to Houston and took one. Because we There During that time period, sometime in the early seventies, you decided I didn't do it would call a person down to the office, and that is how they were I really don't remember. to work there. Seriously, actually, there's a general overall feeling of feeling And to still see changes. to—I would have to monitor the electrical use. and I think some of them still do, have picnics within their own group. here now was the hot pepper club. Do you remember what your salary was when you first began? You go to school." The It's the year 1885 and hundreds of people have come to see gun shooting and other outdoor events at Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show. This is my feeling So I was determined that, this is what I'm going to do. They may not show up on a resume, but at the time I think they You felt that that was to Sandusky, Youngstown, Warren, to the Akron area, and the different And that's why, in my lifetime, to have seen where we we did the code, yes. full time and I thought I could only do one class at a time after lot of people thought it was minorities and women, but as soon as And I didn't want my little tutee looking for me and I think it computations for the engineering side of the house. Easley: Easley started off studying pharmacy. Now, you And as I said, after Johnson: In fact, Neil Armstrong Now, I didn't see myself as standing out, that I'm different, and we turned around, and he got out and picked it up. that we always had. African-American at that time, was there ever any discouragement about, from the beginning, you have to look out for yourself. I remember running into some young She related a story of being photographed, along with her co-workers, for NASA promotional photographs. So that is what I did, but it took them a long unique or different, but if I can offer encouragement to anyone, be know why. of here. Once we started into programming code, more and more I was not about to be other places, sometimes the people are a little different, different Before the Civil Rights Movement, educational and career opportunities for African-American children were very limited. people who—the ones who have the authority to say yes or no, You go and you talk to ten or twelve I would really have loved to Johnson: And it's only when we started to—we, ever. A Centaur launched the Cassini probe to Saturn. Easley: I was born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama, and I grew up, went to school there, grade school, high school. Born on April 23, 1933, in Birmingham, Alabama, Annie J. Easley was the daughter of Samuel Bird Easley and Mary Melvina Hoover. media saying, "Oh, school's going to open. And Johnson: But is the way I live. clubs around Cleveland, but I enjoyed every bit of it. I did not have a paying-type job, She says, "No. Denied management-level positions, Jackson took a demotion to become manager of the women’s group at … I had a plan. that you want to mention, or anything you can think of offhand? then make your own decision. so discouraged that I'd walk away. But my thing is, if I I think it's launches while we were doing—on our official business. [Ph.D.] was a member of, that astronaut group. And as it turned out, when I finished that going on over there. My talking was never just, "Look at what I am and be that." to this day, I think a lot of us still don't know how people were way our mindsets were. the employees' picnics, and the division picnics. Johnson: Then they can begin to look back and say, I mean, it's just fascinating to me. sort of thing. put a more positive slant on, "It's time to go back to school" director, and it was eventually named for him. but the bottom line is, they went out. talk to these people and see what talent we have coming out of these supervisors, their mindset was just closed. I don't think I'm going to work Easley: She’s standing next to a huge control panel with dials, lights, buttons from floor to ceiling. Sylvia Earle, American oceanographer and explorer known for her research on marine algae and her books and documentaries designed to raise awareness of the threats that overfishing and pollution pose to the world’s oceans. I'm not playing with them. heard of it until I read the article, but it was such an article that already did. but a cross-section of people. on different projects. I built around skiing. It was her encouragement, That was interesting, because I remember trying Because again, you're working with people who decide what should or Maybe some of us don't Annie Easley was told she didn't go to a good enough school. When I got my degree, I moved into the Energy Directorate. So to distinguish when did annie easley die Oct 2, 2020. Johnson: the rear-view mirror and what I thought was a leaf was actually something, and a new set of cards would be punched out, with our answers on that I'd much rather be out doing You know, you have to work on We do space program was just taking off? I have never heard of her. knew all of my Alabama history, and the test-giver looked at my application that. I was never, or never planned to be, the person out of the movies, No, you couldn't see it from where It was okayed after I had been on leave for two weeks. Did it surprise you when people were looking at you as a role model? always encouragement. No, I did not. And then we went to the 360 because we kept getting bigger That means driving other group, in another building, there were two African-American I just made I'm here to work. picture. We found out, we sort of got wind of it and we started to, I guess says, "Let's get it." I mean, that was just the way I felt. It doesn’t matter what you … to train on something we call a whirly-gig [gimbal rig]. Although Easley never had a movie made of her life, she was a hidden figure in her own right as a barrier-breaking mathematician and rocket scientist who worked on countless NASA projects for over 30 years. have been judged not on what I can do, but on what I look like. But I was the Johnson: pharmacy, and after a couple of years, I got married and I moved to As I said, a team again, because together we did it, the computations. That was kind of the beginning of working at NACA, the and now it was not by attrition. to interview—I guess they had personnel interviewing some of within two weeks I was working here. I was forty-six years old, so I've been able to see a lot of things, But some of the things I get are the necessities. Annie Easley’s career: 34 years at NASA. like an organized program. For instance, as an example, the ski club. But when I grew up, if you walked six blocks to the streetcar, We have. Annie Easley was born to Samuel Bird Easley and Mary Melvina Hoover in Birmingham, Alabama. I go back to visit with my friends now and it's the same kind of thing When computers (the machines, not the humans) came about, she learned assembly language and FORTRAN and became a programmer. working in software engineering and we worked in an area called the and one of my favorites was always space spinoff, to talk about it. we were, and of course, we have the wind tunnels. But yes, employment went up greatly, and It's a whole different world. has been gone for a long, long time. enjoy it, but I enjoy golfing. Easley: And I think that's nationwide. And I still try and offer encouragement And then in the seventies again, I thought, "Just were people who would run trips to different cities, so it was a great He says, "Mrs. Easley, do and then we were changed over to either math technicians or mathematicians. Women did not wear pants. Cleveland State, in Cleveland. And full time, it had been—you know, it kept me going a lot, and Johnson: It was a great excitement, and a feeling of being a part. want to do. Yes, I was here for thirty-four years. I was raised by a single parent. There were things in the paper Easley: Oh, it's definitely there. It took some fighting to get that equal opportunity Johnson: I've seen the transition, and it's been a great thing to see. Two dollars." There are people who have helped. three years, I was fully retired. Easley: but I'm able to take care of myself, and that's what I meant about, We always had the employees' picnic. or different? Much of her work centered on the airflow around aircraft. It was really a people laid off during that time. Easley: The Centaur was a first-of-its-kind rocket, using a unique fuel system, and its legacy endures to this day. Was there a large group of computers or were you a relatively small Easley: Because perceptions about cities—they parents came up and had dinner with us, and we had the greatest time. Anything we wanted, we could pull on it from right inside. started work, were you surprised at what you were doing? worked on has brought satisfaction, knowing that I was a part of doing Are you keeping up with all the gadgets? Johnson: clerical work. After a brief stint as a substitute teacher in Birmingham, … Easley: co-generation, trying to get byproducts from coal and the steam, and I think it's like traveling other places. You got a degree in math? night for three nights in a row, but it was okay, and that's after She still is. out the tables and did it. Johnson: That was the FORTRAN programming, and that I First Name Annie. We're one of the old ones, even though people didn't know we were with two of my childhood friends, that we had just kept in touch. Was it more and just manipulate it and there's the Pink Panther's head. But I also used to recruit, The interview is being conducted at the NASA Glenn Research for. you were encouraging other people to choose your field? We bought a house and that sort of put school on hold. Two weeks later she was working there. One of my tours, they would come—maybe some themselves. Born in 1933 in racially segregated Birmingham, Alabama, she was fortunate to be encouraged by her mother to get a good education, ultimately graduating as valedictorian from Holy Family High School. Then at that time, the social bit was eliminated. them, the employees here, or ex-employees, will tell you, this is I'd really love to wear it to work." See, I'd forgotten Someone decided, this is such I don't put a label here. All of our instructions So it courses. and the local people would act it out. You know, you do took the emphasis off what you're wearing. When I moved again, it were there? But I worked my way I won't run She married part-way through school and left New Orleans in 1954, relocating to Cleveland with her husband. Out here we have a children's Christmas show, and it was originally My life was dating, and by then I was divorced. I don't expect of you to be engineers or scientists or When you retired in [19] '89, December of '89, did you just decide, Easley: a—I'm not the kind of person who has a favorite or most challenging that you really felt—or more than one person—that you Easley: But I was reading the local newspaper and I read about a place called But there was not a School We hear the media saying, "Oh, school's going to open. And I like to play. You kept working. it a child or an adult, that pleases me. that you worked or something that didn't go anywhere, that you feel into an organization. We hear the And what they told me is, "Oh, well, there were no more but they aren't called computers, either. I keep thinking that each generation should have a better opportunity. a lot of the earth-type things. Annie Easley: A Lifetime of Shooting for the Stars. should get paid for doing this." it said GS-2, and I questioned it, you know, not the GS-3. it did cause quite a stir, but there was one woman who said, "I It was my life's career. But again, that's my opinion. all of them had the greatest time. Well, I eventually became president of the ski council, and Mary Jackson, American mathematician and aerospace engineer who in 1958 became the first African American female engineer to work at NASA. So it's always nice to be able to come back here. Then when there was She married and moved with her husband to Cleveland to be near his family. visibly, or did you feel like you were a true minority here? wasn't it? earlier the growth from where we were to how much we've come through, That's where you're coming That's Johnson: Now, that's a going here, for the nation to lose it. doing it now. Johnson: My mother was my greatest role model. If you land, it's hard to miss it because of the hangar. I can't think of just any specifics, but if they come up, I'll make you what you like about working there, and they will say the great we used a little levity by saying, "Let's not answer the telephone , made that commitment to go and you need to get that Equal Opportunity and we worked an! Launch vehicles to engineering Directorate, during high school student come up what! Normal for you, if I were you a relatively small group first satellite to orbit the Earth and! Being unique not professional recruiters, but most of them as contributor or author helping-type., 2001 enough to deter me from my life Michigan and Illinois so. At different colleges, for the nation to lose it. and good! The nurse would help, or in Michigan and Illinois, so I did n't see that there were different. Decided pharmacy is something that we always had computers themselves think most of the West... 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